Well I suppose it helps in terms of making more money if, say, a designer can turn his/her hand to PHP, mySQL, XML, etc. as opposed to outsourcing it to a developer. However it would be a major headache and, I would imagine, costly in the long-run in terms of time taken to learn everything. As well as getting in the way of ones creative development.

Personally I would recommend that designers become au fait with XHTML, CSS and a little JS and actionscript but to concentrate on making your stuff look cool and usable. Be concerned with producing the best product. Don't try to do everything yourself - for your clients sake.

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Web Design | Flash Development | Property | Irish Fitness Forum

I used to spend a lot of time on a US forum for computer pros. A lot of the designers there were of the opinion that html/css on it's own is near useless and that you should also have some JS at the very least (menu rollovers/form validaiton type level I suppose).

What if your client wants a site of 200 pages ... wouldn't you need at least basic PHP/CF/ASP to make site maintenance easier? That's why I got into SSI (and then php) ... easier site maintenance.

I couldn't see myself going into web design full time with only html/css ... unless someone offered me a job to do just that. Not likely.

Woah! Yeah, too deep man!
(but I agree)

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CSS Templates
emcguinness.ie

Sounds like good advice. Thx.

p.s. actionscript? Cad é sin? (christ, I sound like a right newbie)

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but if my client wants 200 pages I get a developer to develop 200 pages. I'm a designer, I design a look/feel/template, whatever you like to call it. I don't spend my time coding 200 pages. I wouldn't be a designer if I did. I'd be a coder/developer. See what I'm getting at? There's a line between the two and if you cross it, you're not one, you're the other.
Quite possibly true, but I come from a graphic design background which is 70% of my work. But being a designer by trade, I can take my hand to web design as the principles are very similar. In an ideal world, designers would design, and coders would code, but unfortunately companies post ads like the above which tend to blur the boundaries. I suppose it's like asking a carpenter to do the electrics when they're done. Just because they're working in a house doesn't mean they should know how to do everything to build the house.
LOL

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Print & Web Design

If you're a designer and your client wants a data-driven website then you get a programmer/developer to help you with the project. If I were a client I would be very, very wary of a one-man-band who told me they were going to do all and design and development single-handed. I think the word for that kind of setup is 'cowboy'.

It's the scripting language used in Flash.

There is definitely a line between design and development but there is a little crossover too. As a developer, I still learn XHTML and CSS to quite a high standard and usually insist on doing it myself when working on projects - unless I know that the designer that I am working with knows how to code clean, semantic XHTML and has an understanding of accessibility and best-practice.

I would say that, from a technical level, designers should at most know XHTML, CSS and perhaps a little DOM Script. Responsible developers should also know XHTML and CSS and have a good understanding of OO DOM Script in order to maintain the front-end quality of the product - along with all the other development technologies they need. Developers, on the other hand, should leave the graphic design, screen layout, typography, etc. to the creatives.

Yeah i understand what you are saying. I guess i'm just wondering where you draw the line. I presume it's normal to have one foot over the line and stick in a few include tags for example


Oh yeah, brain re-engaged. Thanks.

Cowboy!
(edit: kidding! yeah I know there's a lot more to design that xhtml/css)

Should the roles therefore be more accurately defined as graphic designer & coder rather than designer and developer?

I'm not quite sure. I know a lot more graphic designers who design websites, than I do outright web designers, but that could be just because I work in the design for print industry?

It would make sense if that were the case. So many sites these days esp Web 2.0 sites are very 'graphical', for want of a better word.


Thanks for your opinions guys, it was a good discussion!