Hmmm, no space between 'ApproachTo' on the logo, and a lowercase d for design when all other words are Initial Cap. It's the little things I notice

As for quoting on the job spec above, I would say €2k - €3k would be enough. As mentioned before, it's only really 2 pages to be designed. These can be easily checked for standards/compatibility etc. This is the part I would charge highest for. Adding the content afterwards would be charged at a lower 'production' rate I guess.

EDIT: Just saw this on their 'contact page'...
As far as I was aware, you can't make a claim like that without back-up? It's amazing what people will say in order to fool customers. Shame really.

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I read this too a few years back. Great read. It teaches you a lot about perceived value and that by charging a higher price, your prospect actually perceives that they will be getting a better service from you and go for your services. I studied this in college as well... all about perceived value. I think it's the most important thing here. Oh, I lost my business kit folder ages ago. All I have left is my copy of the cd-rom on harddrive (I still use the docs as a basis... there quite good). Any chance I can get a lend of yours??? It'll be an excuse to meet up and talk business too!!!

I'd actually estimated about 6 actual man days and at my daily rate, that puts me in the 3k-5k bracket. TBH... I can and have done sites for <2k but to do so, you have to cut back on certain things to make it worth your while. When I'm doing a site, I like to put the extra effort in and put nice features, and actually get time to think about the site and not do it like a robot, etc. You get what you pay for at the end of the day and if a client only wanted to pay 1-2k (I normally point them elsewhere but occasionally they are done)... you can't give them the full all round service. You're right redfly... they want a 10k+ website for less than 5k (or 5k+ for less than 2k). There are people out there that say they do them but they are not always up to scratch and the quality of the work shows it. A couple of years ago, a client said to me that they could get a site done for half the price (or less) from someone else. I replied with (very gracefully and with no offence) - "get it done by them, i don't mind but I'm looking forward to meeting with you again when you are asking me to fix your site and at that point my prices will be higher" and they like you for it and give you the job (to my surprise at the time). It was something to that effect and I use a similar approach in similar circumstances (i reword it of course so I don't offend the client and get thrown out of the office on my ear but you get my meaning).

In my quotes, I provide a price with the essentials and include optional extras for the clients to consider. I must talk to you about the copywriting/seo options for future clients.

Not necessarily... sometimes it is just as easy to use a cms for a website as it is to do it static. I would not be charging too much extra for a standard cms but if it is for a complicated cms with uploads, image optimisation, xml feeds, newsletter management, subscriber management, etc. - well then, you are talking more!!!

That's amended. redfly is right... it should be included as standard. It's only been this year since I have really been practising higher standards of coding. I dropped kicked FP out about 6/7 years ago and I only use DW for the colour coded code view and design preview split. Everything I code these days is handwritten and IMO... when you get to this stage, it is much easier and quicker to do then use the ready made functions of those programs.

Yes, agreed, and the sooner you find out what category they fall into, the better. I've been reading a nice little chapter from The Business Bathroom Bible called Death Valley and it basically says at the end of your meeting, arrange the next meeting to discuss your proposal and bring the proposal with you. The response will tell you if the client really wants to move ahead, this is a pricing exercise, the time isn't right, there is a major budget constraint, etc.

Don't worry... I'm here to help you!!

I think this is a nice little discussion so far. Thank you for the replies. In final closing in this post, let me just say that there is a number of different levels of service quality that can be provided to a client. This is not what you say is the quality... it is what your clients perceive to be the quality. However, we know that there are a few different levels and for example now: there are 3 levels of quality - ok, good and great - the problem is if I was selling the great quality and only providing the ok quality but still charging for at great quality rates. This is where are industry has gotten it's bad name in the past but it seems to have healed from it. Another problem is not realising you should be in the great bracket price wise when you are actually providing that level of service but not charging for it. That's another matter altogether I suppose... or it could be regarded as value for money!!!

It's all economics at the end of the day too... I'd rather be doing a less projects at higher standards and getting paid better, than actually doing more projects at lower standards and probably getting the same (or less) for it. I don't want to work myself into an early grave!!!

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Any further thoughts anyone? Did I scare everyone away or something?!?!?!

I'm with Dave on this one. Saying that best practice isn't in the spec so we'll knock out something shoddy in Frontpage with font tags and spacer.gif's is ludicrous. That's the whole problem with working in this industry as the moment. Clients are being duped by people selling them crap that 'will do' and talented, knowledgeable designers are being undercut by cowboys pretending to be talented and knowledgeable.

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Does this thread not amount to price fixing ... and activity which I assume the forum hosts could get in a spot of bother for?
On a previous forum I used to visit (tens of thousands of computer professional members) such topics were banned.

Anyway ... it sounds a bit expensive to me ... not that's i'm a professional designer (got stung on one of my first jobs so gave up).

Let's see..
1. Site plan, gathering content, blah blah blah ... 5 hours?
2. Get your template (or two sorted) ... 15 hours?
3. Debug in **** browsers i.e. IE5-6 ... 6-8 hours?
4. Accessibility etc ... 5 hours?
5. Build site (fill in content) ... 3 hours?
6. Fine tuning, dot the i's cross the t's ... 2 hours?

38 hrs * €60 = €2280 + "administration fee" = €2500
OR perhaps
20 pages @ €100/page = €2000 + fees.

I can't see why this sort of thread is an issue. It's a discussion of pricing in a sector where the pricing varies a lot. I don't have any issue with that and it's definitely not fixing - merely a discussion.

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Grand, well you're the boss

Tho. some might see it as price fixing ... any such "what do you charge" threads come very close to the line.

Enzo

I think you can see there is much discourse and disagreement about pricing, so I dont really think anyone could construe this as a price-fixing thread.

With so many web designers out there, you can be sure of a very diverse and healthy marketplace in which price fixing would probably be counter-productive.

Rgds

Richard

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To be honest no matter how much you try, you will never be able to fix a price for a website no matter if it has 3 pages or 20.
You might get a cutomer that wants 3 pages, but he wants to trow everything in there and make it very complex or he's just a pain in the neck that makes you feel sorry for taking the job.

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Ok lads, I was just making the point that some might see it that way.
From Wikip...

"Under American law, exchanging prices among competitors can also violate the antitrust laws." + "It does not matter ... if the agreement is explicit and formal or unspoken and tacit."

The site I was a member of was American based, they considered it to be quite a serious issue. I've had threads pulled over it. In de aul EU we're a bit softer on the issue I reckon.