Ah reading a nice post and then seeing the words Template Monster makes me freak out . Especially when it comes to their eCommerce collections for Zen Cart, OsCommerce and CRE.

While some of their designs are in fact very good (well done to their designers out there); the end deliverable of templates is a big NO NO!

For example with ZenCart, OsCommerse when making templates it is so important to use override directories and only put relevant files into those override folders allowing upgrades to occur in the future. Yet the deliverable you get from TM comes with an override folder containing every core file possible which just makes it near impossible to upgrade and keep up to date in the future. (that's if it works to start with!)

We've experienced this time after time when customers have come to us asking for support because they initially purchaed a cheap TM template thinking that they could just upload and their existing site would look nice. Unfortunately what they find is that money has been spent and their store doesnt work or they can't upgrade.

I cant really comment on their static websites. Is it provided in full CSS?

Ending on a possitive, then as long as they provide a source PSD then this could be very useful.

Take care

Jamie @JSWeb

P.S. On the off topic note, Notepad ++ is very good!

Thank you chaps for a very interesting read.

This is one aspect of web design that has eluded most designers.
From my point of view, I agree with RedFly a site is an expensive thing to create and that can only be understood by the designer them self.

The problem for most designers is you can’t hold in your hand what we do.

It’s almost impossible for the customer to understand the time and effort you spend studying just to create the best site for them.
I have a number of customers that are on their 3rd and 4th site and they never look elsewhere for a designer. Its hard work building that trust!

Yes you get very difficult customers but in recent years I am finding that I point this type of customer to other designers. Not because they are difficult but because they will never understand (no matter how hard you try) just what’s involved in building a valid website.

oo interesting thread.

i didn't realise the spec was for a static site of 20-30 pages. what a nightmare to produce and update. eek. i would charge more, in fact, for a static site than a CMS built site. i want the client to be in charge of the content.

ew... just thinking of all the back and forths from the days of static HTML. ('oh and on this page, we decided to go with Y image instead of X, and change to wording of our mission statement, oh and the price of B product has changed) yikes!

you can keep your maintenance contract, i want to move along to the next project, and let the client handle the content.

I agree,
It’s a nightmare trying to give clients what they want, especially as they don’t know themselves.

I think the client wants you to just keep designing over and over again just to see if they like it.

I don’t think the client truly appreciates the effort involved in developing a site. I have developed lots of sites that where w3c valid only to have them ripped apart over and over again by the client. So much so that they are no longer w3c valid.

Pricing a site has always been hard as you have to factor this in.

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Alan (Neweb Ireland)

this is my 6th year as a designer. now i have become a lil choosey about my work and the standard package with which i work starts at $1599 yeah that includes

cleint specification reading
Hosting
Design
XHTML/CSS Coding (standard compliant)
Setup
content formatting (content is given by client)
Standard Search Engine Optimisation

This is something that has always puzzled me!
How can you give a set price on something when you don’t know what needs to be done?

For example:
You might get one customer who wants 2 pages or another who wants 10.
You might get a very difficult customer who wants to change pages constantly.
What if the client wants 10 images per page or half a book on each page.

I have seen lots of prices on the internet for 2 pages for X amount 10 pages for X amount. I have even seen e-commerce for 1999.00 dollars

Because web design is do dynamic it's almost imposable to give a single price.

That’s like saying you will sell a car for 10,000.00 euro with the following features:

• 4 Wheels
• Engine
• Windows
• Steering wheel

This could be anything from a Ferrari to a Mini. God help you if the customer wants the Ferrari

see, the rates in this industry depends entirely on the amount of experience you have. the kind of work you can show to the client.
it is indeed like selling a car, but reputation of a designer certainly plays an important role. if you are selling a car for $100,000 then you can be sure of that it is indeed a higher, faster and more swanky brand

Well I'm not so sure about that! There are people in the industry for years and have turned out bad work while you could have someone only in the industry for a couple of years who are turning out great work.

Personally I price on what the client wants and how long or what's involved in getting to what they want.

Where you run into problems is when the clients doesn't know what they want or keeps changing the goal post's


I price on time, the longer it takes the more you pay.

This is a great thread and still very much as relevant as when it was started.

However, what I would like to know is, what the hell is a brake pad???

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Laughing Lion Design - Web & Graphic Design Ireland
Jennifer Farley - Photography & Digital Artwork

Hi Jenny. It seems to be a popular topic alright. I'm hoping to give a talk at BarCamp Cork about selling websites. Basically everything from initial call, meetings (incl. body language), pricing, proposals, contracts, closing the deal, etc. Maybe you and others here would be interested in it? It's on the 1st November. More details at BarCamp Cork II.

Rgds,

Dave

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David Behan
Web Design | Mortgages | Memorial Websites | Digital Printing | Golf Holidays Portugal | Conservatories