Chancers in web-design?

[Irl_Designer]

Apologies if this is the wrong place - but it's a general web related question.

As I've previously mentioned, I'm working away at all things web and graphic design related and trying to get my name out there (registered my company name this week by the way - keep an eye on my sig)

This is just a general observation, and feel free to correct me or prove me wrong ... but I have found there to be a lot of sub-standard, fly-by-night designs/designers out there, in terms of web work.

Obviously I won't post links (tho sorely tempted with a few of them) as I'm not sure what the stance is on the forums here, but a quick browse of say gumtree.ie or similar sites will bring up a lot of ads offering sites from as low as €29 and promising the moon and stars - yet no sign of portfolios or links etc.

Now recently I have been actively approaching potential clients - a number of small/medium sized businesses locally.

I introduce myself and pitch my services as a web designer - being as professional and transparent/honest as I would expect in return. I bring my portfolio along, offer up to 3 x design mockups (free of charge) to spark the interest and get the ball rolling etc. Now this may be the wrong way to go about landing work (even frowned upon) but I'm learning as I go along.

On to my main point:

What I found in more than one instance was an out-and-out rant about web designers - 2 of the business owners had had bad experiences with previous designers. Money had parted hands in good faith yet they were left with either no site or a sub-standard one. I wasn't prepared for this the first time and was caught off guard. Needless to say I couldn't persuade the owner into trying again.

I'm not going to be as cocky to say I'm a great designer, because I'm not - but I'm striving to learn and try something nearly every day ... and would never hand a site or design-job over until I (and more importantly the client) is 100% happy with it.

So is what I found an isolated incident, or is there an element of chancers out there who see web design as a way to land a quick buck? And how many of these guys are out there?

And finally, what strategy would you use if caught in the same conversation as I was when pitching? How do you reassure a business owner to try again? Is it just down to your portfolio and customer testimonials etc?

Has this happened to anyone here?

 

[Irl_Designer]

Thanks to the mod for moving the post - I didn't cop this section within the forum.

I look forward to your responses guys.

 

[beanstalk]

You might be damaging the industry yourself by doing pre-contract mockups. Read NO!SPEC.

 

[Irl_Designer]

You might be damaging the industry yourself by doing pre-contract mockups.

Thank you for the link beanstalk. I will read the info with an open mind and ultimately make my own decision.

Personally, I have landed work before with this practise - but again, I will have a read of the site and weigh up the arguements for and against spec work.

 

[babyboy808]

I think every industry has this problem not just web design. People will try to make a quick buck cause they think it's easy and once they realize it's not, they soon move onto something else.

 

[peterarmstrong]

I'm not a designer but I would explain to the potential client how webdesign payments are normally split up into 3 or 4 stages to prevent designers doing lousy work or running off with money, and I would show him the work you've done in the past, explain how he will have a continuous input into the design process and explain the importance of his business having a professional online presence. If he doesn't have this, it could be a major loss for his business.

 

[link8r]

As I've previously mentioned, I'm working away at all things web and graphic design related and trying to get my name out there (registered my company name this week by the way - keep an eye on my sig)

To be kind, you can't complain about fly-by-nights, yer yet only just registering! A business btw is not the same as a company - they're two very separate and distinct entities/things. Legally and in practice.

This is just a general observation, and feel free to correct me or prove me wrong ... but I have found there to be a lot of sub-standard, fly-by-night designs/designers out there, in terms of web work.

Yes and as @babyboy808 points out - this happens in many industries - but the barrier to entry here is quite low. You have to admit - you are learning but you can carry out as a professional. While there is literally nothing stopping you - you're persevering ahead. There may be people who might consider you to be a fly-by-night, given your relative short time in the "industry" - not sure if that helps put it in perspective, but: Welcome!

I introduce myself and pitch my services as a web designer - being as professional and transparent/honest as I would expect in return.

The term "Professional" can be distilled down to as something as simple as "paid for service" - therefore its not really a standard - just to bear in mind. Honesty on the first day has nothing to do with agreement by two parties on the day of delivery/payment - thats why contracts are so important. No, really.

I bring my portfolio along, offer up to 3 x design mockups (free of charge) to spark the interest and get the ball rolling etc. Now this may be the wrong way to go about landing work (even frowned upon) but I'm learning as I go along.

This is beyond stupid. Forget ruining the industry, you're killing yourself. How do you know argue that your service has value - its already done. Rethink this as quickly as possible. For your own sake.

What I found in more than one instance was an out-and-out rant about web designers - 2 of the business owners had had bad experiences with previous designers. Money had parted hands in good faith yet they were left with either no site or a sub-standard one. I wasn't prepared for this the first time and was caught off guard. Needless to say I couldn't persuade the owner into trying again.

That's easy for anyone to say. They may also have fallen out for other reasons but this one makes them look good - it really happens. Why did the business owner have a bad experience? It isn't always the web developers fault.

Go back to your earlier comment. Too often business people buy a service like this in the same context a consumer buys a product. In fact, I've heard it argued here that the business owner is also a consumer but that is a word out of context. Businesses (which includes companies) do not classify as consumers and are not protected. An agreement between two businesses falls under contract law. Contracts are messy. Essentially people often claim they've been given something they didn't want, often when they see something they didn't envisage/somehow didn't match what they hoped for/would meet some set of expectations they hadn't defined. I'd imagine, legally, if you had a contract stating you'd develop a website for €10k and technically it loaded as a webpage (developed in notepad/frontpage/google sites) - you'd have a website and a watertight case. Businesses can't claim the same rights as consumers. But then sorting out cases in the courts costs more money.

Sub-standard? Are there standards (forgetting W3C - a load of crap IMHO)? What you look for in a website and what I do may boil down to difference of opinion.

I'm not going to be as cocky to say I'm a great designer, because I'm not - but I'm striving to learn and try something nearly every day ... and would never hand a site or design-job over until I (and more importantly the client) is 100% happy with it.

Well, try to establish as many parameters as possible...?

So is what I found an isolated incident, or is there an element of chancers out there who see web design as a way to land a quick buck? And how many of these guys are out there?

No, you will come across this, and probably more frequently given the times we're in - meaning both the tense economic situation and the fact that there are many inexperienced people selling websites which are either mistakenly sold as advertising tools or mistakanly purchased with the understanding of the same when without experience they are not.

It depends on your point of view - there may be many people who would categories you or I in the same group.

And finally, what strategy would you use if caught in the same conversation as I was when pitching? How do you reassure a business owner to try again? Is it just down to your portfolio and customer testimonials etc?

Well that's your sales technique - you need to develop your Unique Sales Point/proposition. Customers will get annoyed if you're learning on the job - however if you give them a good enough value proposition, maybe this mitigates it - if you both have the required skills to overcome it.

A website is not a web business and this understanding is sorely lacking in both the web and the non-web fraternities alike. As long as you know your limits you should be fine.

Has this happened to anyone here?

Yes, definitely. Over the last ten years, more than once! More than once a month even. People claim to be burnt by O2, Fianna Fail, Web designers, Taxi's, Accountants..life goes on best of luck

 

[Byron]

I agree with link8r on almost everything there, however if your work meets W3C from the quality point of view, and you say that's a guarantee of quality (which we know it isn't always), it can help get invoices paid.