CMS solutions - so many to choose from

[neweb]

Come on, that’s a bit of a Joomla bashing.

Yes it has its restrictions but overall its one of the biggest CMS systems out there and for a good reason.

I have put up a number of Joomla sites and never came across the issues you mentioned. I’m not saying it’s the perfect solution for everything but over all it packs a mighty punch.

The only reason Joomla is attacked so much is due to the fact that it’s so popular.

Drupal is fast and works well but it’s not for me. It’s a very good bit of software but is complex to use. The same applies to Expression Engine.

I have been trying expression engine over the past couple of days and it’s a really nice interface and can do quite a bit more when it comes to a custom look. But again you need that click moment for it to work well.
Joomla is like the FrontPage of web design (only better)

If a designer uses FrontPage then they are not really a designer. Only the real pro’s use Dreamweaver or hand code. This is design snobbery at its best.

For someone wanting to get into CMS Joomla 1.5 will give you your best start. You will get results long before you get frustrated and give up. Once you see the benefits of CMS then you can move on to other more complex packages, not because you think you’re an amateur for using Joomla but because you want to try something else and improve your skills!

 

[gav240z]

Come on, that’s a bit of a Joomla bashing.

Yes it has its restrictions but overall its one of the biggest CMS systems out there and for a good reason.

I have put up a number of Joomla sites and never came across the issues you mentioned. I’m not saying it’s the perfect solution for everything but over all it packs a mighty punch.

The only reason Joomla is attacked so much is due to the fact that it’s so popular.

Drupal is fast and works well but it’s not for me. It’s a very good bit of software but is complex to use. The same applies to Expression Engine.

I have been trying expression engine over the past couple of days and it’s a really nice interface and can do quite a bit more when it comes to a custom look. But again you need that click moment for it to work well.
Joomla is like the FrontPage of web design (only better)

If a designer uses FrontPage then they are not really a designer. Only the real pro’s use Dreamweaver or hand code. This is design snobbery at its best.

For someone wanting to get into CMS Joomla 1.5 will give you your best start. You will get results long before you get frustrated and give up. Once you see the benefits of CMS then you can move on to other more complex packages, not because you think you’re an amateur for using Joomla but because you want to try something else and improve your skills!

I didn't think I wash bashing it, rather pointing out some of the common problems with the system. It is very fixed in terms of it structure and set out. It is a good system as you say to get started with and fairly user intuitive and I'd recommend anyone with little working experience with a CMS to give it a try.

It is probably the best system in terms of usability (apart from wordpress which is fantastic).

However I find it has several limitations, including what seems to be some serious security issues that pop up often.

I also had serious issues with migrating from 1.0.XX series to the newer 1.5 framework. If the migration was made easier I would have probably continued with 1.5 but the effort required meant that it was just as easy to migrate to another CMS.

 

[shaneod]

Been looking into both a bit more, they both look very good, Drupal seems to be frighteningly flexible but will take some learning. I sthe Herald.ie built with it? there's a case study that look very similar to it.

Joomla definitely looks more intuitive to learn.

Wordpress is the business for what it does.

nice site Gav, i take it you like yer cars!

 

[neweb]

It is probably the best system in terms of usability (apart from wordpress which is fantastic).

I agree, WordPress is a great bit of software and its easy to pick up and make changes to.

I suppose its just a case of using the best package that’s right for the job you are currently working on.

 

[mneylon]

Joomla is a security nightmare and is going to end up being completely blocked on a lot of shared hosting platforms if they don't clean up their act

 

[gav240z]

Joomla is a security nightmare and is going to end up being completely blocked on a lot of shared hosting platforms if they don't clean up their act

That doesn't surprise me. For the sake of Open Source I hope this makes a difference: The New Joomla Security Strike Team Attacks

 

[mneylon]

That doesn't surprise me. For the sake of Open Source I hope this makes a difference: The New Joomla Security Strike Team Attacks

Heh - they have been ignoring the security holes for ages. The only reason they launched their "security team" is because they got hacked.

There are plenty of open source solutions out there that have reasonable security - Joomla just isn't one of them

 

[neweb]

Joomla is a security nightmare and is going to end up being completely blocked on a lot of shared hosting platforms if they don't clean up their act

That might be so, but if they are making an effort at cleaning up there act, then they can’t be criticized for that.


Joomla was once Mambo until they broke away. Dose Mambo have the same reputation as Joomla?

If Drupal or EE was as big as Joomla then I’m pretty sure it would be attacked as much. These people always target the big players so they can hit as many people as possible.

The up side to Joomla is that its well supported with paid and free add-on’s
The down side is, everyone want’s to have a go at it.

The same will apply to all CMS or Blog software.
WordPress is a great bit of Kit and it appears security is not an issue even though it’s a big player. The down site is, it can’t do half the things Joomla can.

It’s a never-ending loop that just keeps going round and around.

Now I have to get back to playing with Expression Engine. I’m getting quite attached to it. Still have to find a project that I can use it in
Still haven’t had my Eureka moment yet, might be in the post tomorrow!!

 

[nearlythere]

just because it's quiet doesn't mean there isn't any trouble...

If Drupal or EE was as big as Joomla then I’m pretty sure it would be attacked as much. These people always target the big players so they can hit as many people as possible.

EE has many security problems, as well as Joomla & Drupal... and sure, any CMS is going to have security holes and attacks- given enough time someone could attack any piece of software.

The difference to compare is in the speed of response on the part of developers and the commitment of those in the security team- and the coding standards kept within each community.

I just returned from the DrupalCon- and in that conference there were many sessions on code review modules for testing the security and adherence to standards; there are many sercurity tests, and constant communication about potential security holes. They have an open approach to security, and that is quite different than EE's approach.

The Open Security Model, Drupal and ExpressionEngine on Security | Lullabot

"ExpressionEngine has had only one security advisory over the course of 3 years. Over that same time period, Drupal has had over 80. It's easy to draw the incorrect conclusion there that ExpressionEngine therefore is more secure. Secunia specifically states "The statistics provided should NOT be used to compare the overall security of products against one another." And for good reason, what we're experiencing here is a difference in security practices. In this particular difference, Drupal reports its security vulnerabilities, while ExpressionEngine does not.

​

Another post here talking about security between EE and Drupal: Drupal or Expression Engine | drupal.org

And Drupal is pretty big- not only in terms of numbers of installed sites using Drupal- but also in terms of the sizes of sites it can support, and scalability of its architecture to support very large sites. For that large companies that use Drupal- they are very concerned about Security.

 

[mneylon]

The difference to compare is in the speed of response on the part of developers and the commitment of those in the security team- and the coding standards kept within each community.

So how would you rate Joomla?

 

[nearlythere]

*shrug*

Well, it's good to see they formed a security team to sift through every security hole since their early releases.... looks like they have alot of catching up to do?

 

[gav240z]

EE has many security problems, as well as Joomla & Drupal... and sure, any CMS is going to have security holes and attacks- given enough time someone could attack any piece of software.

The difference to compare is in the speed of response on the part of developers and the commitment of those in the security team- and the coding standards kept within each community.

I just returned from the DrupalCon- and in that conference there were many sessions on code review modules for testing the security and adherence to standards; there are many sercurity tests, and constant communication about potential security holes. They have an open approach to security, and that is quite different than EE's approach.

The Open Security Model, Drupal and ExpressionEngine on Security | Lullabot

"ExpressionEngine has had only one security advisory over the course of 3 years. Over that same time period, Drupal has had over 80. It's easy to draw the incorrect conclusion there that ExpressionEngine therefore is more secure. Secunia specifically states "The statistics provided should NOT be used to compare the overall security of products against one another." And for good reason, what we're experiencing here is a difference in security practices. In this particular difference, Drupal reports its security vulnerabilities, while ExpressionEngine does not.

​

Another post here talking about security between EE and Drupal: Drupal or Expression Engine | drupal.org

And Drupal is pretty big- not only in terms of numbers of installed sites using Drupal- but also in terms of the sizes of sites it can support, and scalability of its architecture to support very large sites. For that large companies that use Drupal- they are very concerned about Security.

Excellent post, I couldn't have put it better really. I guess what's important to remember is that open source software often report security issues, where as commercial software does not.

I've not used Expression Engine to build a website myself, unfortunately what I wanted to do with it, did not fit in with the license of the software.

 

[gav240z]

Been looking into both a bit more, they both look very good, Drupal seems to be frighteningly flexible but will take some learning. I sthe Herald.ie built with it? there's a case study that look very similar to it.

Joomla definitely looks more intuitive to learn.

Wordpress is the business for what it does.

nice site Gav, i take it you like yer cars!

Thanks Shaneod,

If I may suggest have a listen to Drupal Podcast No. 38: Deprecated! | Lullabot and also read through alot of articles on Friendly Expert Drupal Consulting | Lullabot if you decide to delve into it. Alot of older modules have been replaced with Drupal's content construction kit and views modules, but these require a fair amount of time to learn.

Also I'm going to buy the Pro Drupal Development book and I'd suggest doing it also as it will give you a really good understanding of the Drupal system.

Yeah I love my Classic Cars.

 

[neweb]

a difference in security practices.
In this particular difference, Drupal reports its security vulnerabilities, while ExpressionEngine does not.

I think this is true for most open source software.

Over the years I have gradually switched to a lot of Freeware as they almost always have an open door policy. Paid software companies are afraid they are going to lose business if they reveal too much.

Most open source CMS software (including Drupal and Joomla) will be attacked more purely due to the fact that there code is out there for all to see. That’s the nature of the beast.

While I do like EE and how it works its not half as dynamic as Drupal or Joomla as I found out on this website.

CMS Matrix - cmsmatrix.org - The Content Management Comparison Tool

(You can compare the differences in all the CMS software.)

Overall I think it comes down to personal choice. The most recent site I built with Joomla (Shanowenfiles.ie) was very customable and it was great sitting down with the client and getting him to click on Icons to add, edit or delete articles.

He picked it all up within an hour and I was able to move on to my next project. That’s what I am looking for in a CMS package.

 

[shaneod]

If I may suggest have a listen to Drupal Podcast No. 38: Deprecated! | Lullabot and also read through alot of articles on Friendly Expert Drupal Consulting | Lullabot if you decide to delve into it. Alot of older modules have been replaced with Drupal's content construction kit and views modules, but these require a fair amount of time to learn.

Also I'm going to buy the Pro Drupal Development book and I'd suggest doing it also as it will give you a really good understanding of the Drupal system.

Thanks for the links, will look into them. Was thinking the book might be worth an investment alright.

 

[maketop]

ZCart and Oscommerce are shopping cart program... if you don't open a shop online, forget them

 

[osurdival]

What about developing a custom soultion

There's a lot of applications out there can achieve what you are looking for. The question to answer is does that piece of software accomplish 100% of my needs. IF the answer is no then maybe you should get a application developed for your individual needs

 

[neweb]

There's a lot of applications out there can achieve what you are looking for. The question to answer is does that piece of software accomplish 100% of my needs. IF the answer is no then maybe you should get a application developed for your individual needs

In all fairness, I've yet to find a package that fulfils 100% of my needs.
You take the package that gets about 80-90% and fine tune your project to meat the software in the middle somewhere.

When I am building projects I always look at what the client wants and where they want to go with it in the future.