Demand up, down or the same?
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nevf
New Member
In the shop where i work, demand is still up. Of course, offers on the phones coming out of nowhere from o2 are really helping. As regards ipods and all that, we're generally going to be selling plenty until christmas (since the design was refreshed). As regards other areas, such as computers and all that, everything has pretty much remained the same thank god. My job is secure.
On the web design/dev aspect, still as busy as ever. Enough work at the moment to do me until february. Local companies trying to refine and improve business through these hard times, so naturally, i'd be more busy during the down turn...
On the web design/dev aspect, still as busy as ever. Enough work at the moment to do me until february. Local companies trying to refine and improve business through these hard times, so naturally, i'd be more busy during the down turn...
matt@fintekweb
New Member
Ok the last post in this thread is about three months old now and I was wondering if some of the more seasoned freelancers could spare some pearls of wisdom.
Are you pulling in a lot of work now? Do you find that in January 2009 you have people kicking down your door to do websites or has the whole thing completely gone belly up ?
I have recently started working for myself and having completed four websites in the last 6 months, I am finding it difficult to get clients to commit to new projects.
I believe that I am good at what I do and I strive to produce quality websites, and as such, my prices would reflect this. I am not the cheapest on the market, but then again I put a lot of thought and effort into the work that I do. I charge professional rates but I also like to think my they are competitive.
I have met with 3 potential clients since just before Christmas and I can't seem to get them to 'bite', as in put pen to paper. I sat down with them and discussed what they wanted and explained to them what would be needed to keep them and their customers happy. We talked about establishing user and business goals etc and how to align them both, so it wasn't a conversation involving a clueless client and a snakeskin merchant who would say 'yeah we can do that' to everything.
I go in there confident and feel that I have done well after the meeting. I follow up with an estimate of the work to be carried out and send it to them. As soon as this happens, I hear nothing from them.
For one client, I came up with an estimate of €3,500 ex VAT for a site that would have quite a lot of content on it relevant to a particular field of work. This price includes wireframing, user testing, graphic design, front and back end development, hosting and online marketing. The whole caboodle to make the site a success. It would be a project akin to the citizieninformation.ie website.
I'd like to hear your experiences.
Thanks for reading
Are you pulling in a lot of work now? Do you find that in January 2009 you have people kicking down your door to do websites or has the whole thing completely gone belly up ?
I have recently started working for myself and having completed four websites in the last 6 months, I am finding it difficult to get clients to commit to new projects.
I believe that I am good at what I do and I strive to produce quality websites, and as such, my prices would reflect this. I am not the cheapest on the market, but then again I put a lot of thought and effort into the work that I do. I charge professional rates but I also like to think my they are competitive.
I have met with 3 potential clients since just before Christmas and I can't seem to get them to 'bite', as in put pen to paper. I sat down with them and discussed what they wanted and explained to them what would be needed to keep them and their customers happy. We talked about establishing user and business goals etc and how to align them both, so it wasn't a conversation involving a clueless client and a snakeskin merchant who would say 'yeah we can do that' to everything.
I go in there confident and feel that I have done well after the meeting. I follow up with an estimate of the work to be carried out and send it to them. As soon as this happens, I hear nothing from them.
For one client, I came up with an estimate of €3,500 ex VAT for a site that would have quite a lot of content on it relevant to a particular field of work. This price includes wireframing, user testing, graphic design, front and back end development, hosting and online marketing. The whole caboodle to make the site a success. It would be a project akin to the citizieninformation.ie website.
I'd like to hear your experiences.
Thanks for reading
You probably put too much on the line for the first time.
Try splitting the job in few stages:
domain name + hosting
website design/developed
on-line marketing
Don't push all the work at first as the bill does go up a bit and it looks like an expensive adventure...
If you explain that after website is up and running they could try the "on-line marketing" stage to improve revenue, they might go for it as some money was already spent and can not be wasted...
Just my 2 cents...
Try splitting the job in few stages:
domain name + hosting
website design/developed
on-line marketing
Don't push all the work at first as the bill does go up a bit and it looks like an expensive adventure...
If you explain that after website is up and running they could try the "on-line marketing" stage to improve revenue, they might go for it as some money was already spent and can not be wasted...
Just my 2 cents...
@Matt (FintekWeb)
Do you have to write the content? €3,5k seems high.
I think unfortunately there may be too many "web designers" in the field. There are plenty of people who can build a page that will run in a web browser. Whether that counts as a professional website is up for debate. Many of these people have a full time job. So they have no problem charging €500 for a website, after all it's cash in hand and if you did 1 per month, it's like having a €10k payrise per annum (on the higher tax rate).
Many people then believe they can go into this full time. Then you have to balance having to bank x amount to cover salary, overheads, marketing and other costs. I've seen so many companies and individuals set up in the last few years...if anyone's thinking about it, think long and hard. Customers don't just walk in the door! Most people on here developing websites as a sideline or part-time here develop ok sites - but they're not hugely professional. They're just the best work they've ever done - it doesn't mean its the best work for that rate!
I think a lot of people found it quiet in the run up to Christmas but we've seen such a dramatic increase in January.
Do you have to write the content? €3,5k seems high.
I think unfortunately there may be too many "web designers" in the field. There are plenty of people who can build a page that will run in a web browser. Whether that counts as a professional website is up for debate. Many of these people have a full time job. So they have no problem charging €500 for a website, after all it's cash in hand and if you did 1 per month, it's like having a €10k payrise per annum (on the higher tax rate).
Many people then believe they can go into this full time. Then you have to balance having to bank x amount to cover salary, overheads, marketing and other costs. I've seen so many companies and individuals set up in the last few years...if anyone's thinking about it, think long and hard. Customers don't just walk in the door! Most people on here developing websites as a sideline or part-time here develop ok sites - but they're not hugely professional. They're just the best work they've ever done - it doesn't mean its the best work for that rate!
I think a lot of people found it quiet in the run up to Christmas but we've seen such a dramatic increase in January.
Most of the designers we deal with don't get out of bed for jobs billing less than that
matt@fintekweb
New Member
The job I have mentioned would be sizeable enough. I would have to do the content but my client would help me source it. I would also develop the site from scratch and devise a search engine marketing campaign. I have my set of skills and where I am lacking, I seek outside professional help, namely in graphic design.
This isn't a sideline for me. I'm in it full time. I did think long and hard about it and I felt at the time that there is a room for quality web designers in Ireland. With some exceptions (and you know who you are, take a bow) the Irish web design industry is pretty poor. I'm aware of the ramifications of starting a business. Just need more practical experience but it's always a learning curve.
When discussing cost with a client, I prefer to lay all the cards out on the table so they know what they are getting themselves into. Do you think this is a bad idea? Do you find that it's better to just to the website and then mention advertising just before launch?
This isn't a sideline for me. I'm in it full time. I did think long and hard about it and I felt at the time that there is a room for quality web designers in Ireland. With some exceptions (and you know who you are, take a bow) the Irish web design industry is pretty poor. I'm aware of the ramifications of starting a business. Just need more practical experience but it's always a learning curve.
When discussing cost with a client, I prefer to lay all the cards out on the table so they know what they are getting themselves into. Do you think this is a bad idea? Do you find that it's better to just to the website and then mention advertising just before launch?
I'd be the same way - I ask people if they've done their homework. If budget really is a problem, then I suggest reworking their idea so that more consideration is given toward marketing. Blogs are free as long as they can create real, unique and interesting (to someone!) content. I hate blogs that are just shops or website lists (e.g. Omniserve)
nevf
New Member
Yup, I was one of those people who was not very good at web design. I wasn't great, but I could tell from the beginning that I didn't have the skills to make myself a professional at it.
So I just left that sort of business, I'm still interested in it, and I do a few jobs here and there, but nothing major. I have another job in a retail shop, so even if business is quiet on my side, I have something to fall back on. I still go out to people's houses and as Forbairt says "Jack of all Trades, and master of a few" (or something like that), and I had a few jobs on business ecommerce sites which I really enjoyed, where I analysed them, and gave a report on them then, and the recommendations of the report were listened to and results were productive, so then I got recommended and have done 2 other ecommerce sites since.
In another case, I worked on the internal network for a business and put in a groupware management suite because the business wanted to encourage it's 15 staff to cloud compute, using their own laptops... as a result of declining sales.
I feel that I am slipping into a niche area now, different, but not far away from web design - and it's one of those areas, that if I can make a name for myself, and when I get a car, that won't be affected too much by the recession because, as I've said before to a couple of people - I personally believe it's really a matter of shifting your expertise, as the customers shift their demands...
So I just left that sort of business, I'm still interested in it, and I do a few jobs here and there, but nothing major. I have another job in a retail shop, so even if business is quiet on my side, I have something to fall back on. I still go out to people's houses and as Forbairt says "Jack of all Trades, and master of a few" (or something like that), and I had a few jobs on business ecommerce sites which I really enjoyed, where I analysed them, and gave a report on them then, and the recommendations of the report were listened to and results were productive, so then I got recommended and have done 2 other ecommerce sites since.
In another case, I worked on the internal network for a business and put in a groupware management suite because the business wanted to encourage it's 15 staff to cloud compute, using their own laptops... as a result of declining sales.
I feel that I am slipping into a niche area now, different, but not far away from web design - and it's one of those areas, that if I can make a name for myself, and when I get a car, that won't be affected too much by the recession because, as I've said before to a couple of people - I personally believe it's really a matter of shifting your expertise, as the customers shift their demands...
matt@fintekweb
New Member
Hi Louie, to quote you
" I think a lot of people found it quiet in the run up to Christmas but we've seen such a dramatic increase in January."
I don't quite understand that, do you mean that it's much quieter now than in Christmas or demand has increased dramatically in January ?
Just thinking there, I know it's difficult to strike a good balance for pricing. Obviously, I don't want to charge too little and undersell myself, but just the right amount to give the client the best bang for buck.
" I think a lot of people found it quiet in the run up to Christmas but we've seen such a dramatic increase in January."
I don't quite understand that, do you mean that it's much quieter now than in Christmas or demand has increased dramatically in January ?
Just thinking there, I know it's difficult to strike a good balance for pricing. Obviously, I don't want to charge too little and undersell myself, but just the right amount to give the client the best bang for buck.
nevf
New Member
True.
I know I would. But, as said already, you get what you pay for... my sites would be fully compliant, but in terms of having that "magical eyecatching feature", mine certainly wouldn't I'm afraid.
Where I think the site needs work, and more skill than I can input, I will straight away refer them to someone bigger and better.... I hate tagging people along, and have learnt my lessons on that front....
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