Salary expectations - too much or too little

[ph3n0m]

Came up in discussion between a group of people, one in particular felt he was getting screwed over in relation to pay - wondering what do people think


Bit of background, been with company 3 years
For the best part of those 3 has been the sole frontend guy
He does everything (his words) from xhtml, css, jsp, javascript, ajax, dhtml, some design, some testing, trying to ensure standards, meeting with clients, planning, etc

Oh and he recently got an internal promotion making him more of a team leader (since there are new people coming in, under him as part of a team)

He is currently on around 37, I think - he is looking for an extra 7.5 on top of that - is he asking too much or too little

Opinions?

 

[TheMenace]

How many years experience does he have altogether? More importantly, how good is he? If his JSP and AJAX is strong, can he really just be considered a front-end developer? Or does he just add tags and set-up the response request scripts?

37k seems fairly low to me but it really depends on how skilled he is in the technologies you have mentioned... and if you're asking him to manage people seriously, you'll need to start looking well into the 50's and beyond.

 

[ph3n0m]

Think he is being working in relation to the "web" for about 7/8 years now

Well his jsp is good - but his Java would be "meh" at best - ajax - most stealing/borrowing/modifying what is already there to suit his needs

As for how good - well he was nowt short of bragging when he said that most of the managers said he was the "go to guy" for frontend stuff aswell as product knowledge (sounds like a right big headed git when he goes on about that)

 

[hosting365]

37k isnt bad in fairness, and is a decent pay for a medium level technical team lead. If you want to get into the 50's you need to be either really **** hot in a specific area, or a really good people manager IMHO.

 

[TheMenace]

37k isnt bad in fairness, and is a decent pay for a medium level technical team lead.

I'd have to disagree. It's 3k less than the average industrial wage (I'm assuming the job's in Dublin) so, for someone with 7 or 8 years experience, it's pretty rubbish. As I say though, it really depends on how good the guy is. If he's dead wood with 7 or 8 years experience and no management skills then he's probably lucky to get what he's getting. If he's s**t hot and well able to manage a team, then he's worth a lot more. Tough to guage without ever having worked with the guy.

To be honest though, salaries for Web design and development are a disgrace. Nobody should be asked to work in this profession with more than 2 or 3 years experience for less than 40k. Anyone with more than 2 or 3 years experience who isn't worth 40k to an employer should probably find another industry to work in IMO.

 

[ph3n0m]

37k isnt bad in fairness, and is a decent pay for a medium level technical team lead. If you want to get into the 50's you need to be either really **** hot in a specific area, or a really good people manager IMHO.

see that what atleast two people told him, he just feels that since a lot of people are constantly looking towards him for his experience (in the company) and knowledge, that he should be aptly rewarded.

One major stumbling block I think is, he switched employers 3 different jobs in 5 years, and he seems to be allowing himself to start at the entry/base salary level - which he admits is frustrating for himself, but also shows, imo, that he is very naive and should really demand more, if he thinks he is entitled to it

And yes the job is based in Dublin. And the plank has experience of managing other people - he has been in that "team lead" type of role before - but I really dont know anymore beyond that

 

[TheMenace]

One major stumbling block I think is, he switched employers 3 different jobs in 5 years, and he seems to be allowing himself to start at the entry/base salary level - which he admits is frustrating for himself, but also shows, imo, that he is very naive and should really demand more, if he thinks he is entitled to it

This is fairly common. A lot of the time 'Technical Team Lead' titles tend to be given to more experienced production staff but they're very much still dictated to by management and are earning an entry level salary. You're not really 'leading' anything except you are expected to assume a lot more responsibility; sometimes even manage the company. I know - I've been there.

If this guy is expected to (and capable of) managing a team of people, then I have to say, he should be at least earning in the mid to late 40's. If he's expected to manage production or do full project management and administration then it should be at least 10k more.

 

[paul]

The big questions is "Would he be able to get a higher salary at a competitor" ? Is he willing to leave it he doesn't get the raise he wants ?

A 20% raise in the same position he is doing right now seems high. If he was moving to a more senior role maybe it could be fair.

That being said I don't work in the industry (and don't live in Irealnd).

 

[ph3n0m]

If this guy is expected to (and capable of) managing a team of people, then I have to say, he should be at least earning in the mid to late 40's. If he's expected to manage production or do full project management and administration then it should be at least 10k more.

Well another round drinking started and more come to light, it seems that he is expected to delegate varying projects to new frontend staff, aswell as train them, provide support for all projects to sales, development, design, etc, produce documentation for guidelines, aswell as "introduction presentation" for any and all future front-end related employees that could be hired (it took 3 attempts to slur that out of him).

He did make mention that initially his "team" consists of 3 other people - one he found out was on more money then is (which I really think shocked the **** out of him)

I dont think if he was to leave, would he get any kind renumeration that he is entitled to (based on experience/knowledge) - because IT in Ireland, well its very unrewarding.

One girl (yes girls do work in IT) suggested he goes freelance/works for himself - but because he felt he was too much of a company man, he wouldnt necessarily have the contacts - especially since there are already loads out there doing the same/similiar.

He is waiting to hear back whats been put on the table before him, which he said would be sometimes next week (this is almost as dramatic as a soap opera) - so its a case of wait and see for the moment.

 

[TheMenace]

because IT in Ireland, well its very unrewarding.

I don't know if you're the actual employer or not, but that's no excuse at all. Any company that thinks this way devalues themselves as well as their industry and, IMO, there's a very good chance they don't even understand their own business. If IT in Ireland is unrewarding, it's because it's being managed badly.

 

[ph3n0m]

An employer - noooo, just another IT drone - however, from talking to people in and around the same areas I work in - quite a few feel undervalued by their employers - especially when it comes to stuff like working overtime, etc

 

[TheMenace]

however, from talking to people in and around the same areas I work in - quite a few feel undervalued by their employers - especially when it comes to stuff like working overtime, etc

Yeah, there's no doubt about it. Been there, done that. From what I can tell though, this is usually as a result of p**s poor management. Not being able to pay a valued designer or developer with 8 years experience more than 37k shows signs that a company is not being run properly at all.

 

[Cormac]

An employer - noooo, just another IT drone - however, from talking to people in and around the same areas I work in - quite a few feel undervalued by their employers - especially when it comes to stuff like working overtime, etc

I have to say that OT and On-Call work is probably the best aspect of my job. 2.5 times the standard rate for OT and you get a holiday day in lieu. Works out at just under 4 days pay for one days work.

 

[ph3n0m]

I have to say that OT and On-Call work is probably the best aspect of my job. 2.5 times the standard rate for OT and you get a holiday day in lieu. Works out at just under 4 days pay for one days work.

yeah that kind of benefit for working overtime is nice - but I have heard and seen too many employees been asked to work overtime (due to various reasons) and not immediately getting something back (for example: days off, etc)

TBH, I have never once worked for a company that ever did that strange thing you mentioned - paying for overtime work

 

[Cormac]

Banks in general have great payment policies for additional work.

 

[TheMenace]

The big questions is "Would he be able to get a higher salary at a competitor" ? Is he willing to leave it he doesn't get the raise he wants ?

Personally I think the big question is "Can you replace him with someone as competent and experienced for the same salary?"

Your staff can ALWAYS get a higher salary with a competitor. It's not an employers market anymore. Talented designers and developers are in VERY short supply.